Notgames Forum

I've always found this wesite extremely fascinating. I loved the movie and this website, thats kinda of a game but not quite, is just so surrealisticly delicious.

http://www.donniedarkofilm.com/

I think a bigger game that's made in this kind of fashion could be really interesting.

Reminds me a bit of the prototype we made for Lifetime tv:
http://entropy8zuper.org/html/drafts/al-jahiz/

Yes, the web used to be a very promising interactive medium...

Wow, that looks great!

You say used to be, don't you think the web still have things to offer in regards to interactive art or entertainment?

Annoying Flash websites were nothing special. The web is becoming what it was all along, a place to exchange information, it's just better at it now. I don't miss things like that Donnie Darko site. Their interaction and what art may have existed, was always pretty shallow anyway. The "Web" is no more suitable as an interactive medium than Dropbox or my file browser.

Well I strongly disagree. A website like Donnie Darko, or what Michaël posted, i feel is just as much art as a "traditional" art-game. And I would rather compare them to a regular flash games in terms of usability and interactivity, only not limited to a 600x400 window.

The web as a technology still exists, of course. But the context has changed so much. "Back in the nineties" there were far fewer people online (so everybody was cool and each other's peer), there was no spam (sic!), no e-commerce (or it didn't really work very well) and no branded "social networks" (apart from the internet itself). That was a good context for artistic expression and experience. There was no real distinction between creator and consumer. Which is nice, especially when it comes to interactive work, I guess.

I remember when this website came out and everyone was obsessed with it. I never much liked it, myself - always thought of it as a piece of pseudo-art used to sell a film.

I do, however, have to absolutely agree with Michaël's post above. I really miss those days of the net. If people had something to say online, they built a website. I miss all those beautiful websites which have been drowned out by social media which, let's be honest, are hardly the expression of one's self that the majority of users believe. The web has lost a lot of its do-it-yourself ethos and accessibility. I swear (and maybe I have rose-tinted spectacles on here) that, if you really wanted, you had a direct connection to everyone else using the net in those days.

Sorry but I think that is pure nonsense.

That's also a possibility.

My issue could be one of a personal signal to noise ratio, because I can see all the arguments in the other direction.

What is? That the web was a friendlier place in the past where people were much more creative?

Correct. It's like saying "that band was way cooler before they got popular." Really? Come on. The internet had lots of potential, some of it it's actually living up to, now. But that's all it was, potential. No one actually did much with it artistically. Mainly just bad navigation masquerading as cleverness.

Nobody was making big artistic statements (at least, nobody was doing that successfully), I agree with that. And there were a lot of bad, bad sites masquerading as art. In my experience they were built by flash/dreamweaver fiends who somehow went on to become very successful commercial web developers (not that I'm bitter or anything =:cD ), but I'm sure that wasn't always the case.

I do think there was a lot more self-publishing happening in general, though. Aside from limited profile pages that supported IM/chat networks, people didn't have much of a personal outlet. It felt like a new medium, the first people on it were, naturally, the most curious and it seemed like everyone could do anything. When I tell people now that I was a Web Designer/Developer it's like I was a rockstar or something - accessibility has beeen lost.

A higher percentage of people used to have a go at building a website and these were a more natural extension of their self than a template page on a 'social networking' site. The progression since then has been (forgotton the first few) > angelfire > myspace > facebook, each stage a watering down of the design side. That's mostly a good thing from a usability point of view, but does rather drown out personal creativity. That's why I feel like I've never known so many people (online) so little, because the things that are important (to me) in a person are no longer on display. Yes, it is true that the net was devised as a data-sharing network, but the potential that led to the net's explosion was one of personal expression and freedom. What led to its saturation was entertainment, shopping and curtain-twitching. I don't think it is wrong or elitist to claim the net was a different place back in the day, it only makes sense that as populism sets in that something changes - even moreso when the medium is one shaped by its users. If a band started out in a niche, went mainstream and then pandered to a populist tune, you would certainly be justified in saying they had changed. For the better or for the worse? That depends on who you ask.

Saying all this, the net can still be used in the same way we used to use it, so the blame most squarely lies on our (those moaning) shoulders. Hmmmm, time to start building websites again.

Does anyone know any good chatrooms?

Exactly, no one has got a gun to anyone's head saying "don't make artsy websites!" And I'm not saying no one made artistic websites, I simply question how artistic most of them where.  There was a lot of experimentation. I used to design websites as well but I just hated it after a while. I think IE6 killed a lot of innovation, it screwed up everything when it came to markup code.

As for chatrooms - I hang out in #tigirc on irc.esper.net. It's probably the best chatroom I've ever used. People actually chat there and it's even sometimes intelligent.

It's pretty much inevitable that any medium/movement/social structure will become watered down and its overall appearance will sink towards the lowest common denominator as it gains mainstream acceptance, popularity, and widespread use.  That's just how people work.  I was not really that much of a player in the earlier days of the web, so I won't presume to make any comments about that, but I would argue that the potential is greater now than ever.  I also think that a community or network that is skillfully crafted towards certain themes by thoughtful people would naturally filter out most of the undesirables based simply on the fact that it wouldn't pander to their tastes.

How about Sonic Youth? Or The Cure?