Notgames Forum

People seem to worry a lot about distractions of the internet or whatever. The thing is, we really aren't effective for more than 40 hours per week of work or 6-10 hours. The human brain and body really isn't made for more than that. It's a fact. So go ahead and be "distracted". Chances are, if you're already working at maximum capacity, you wouldn't get any more done anyway.

I'm definitely familiar with Knytt, Knytt Stories, Seiklus, and Small Worlds.

Knytt is definitely a big inspiration. I guess I could describe my thought as taking Knytt and giving it more of a story, rather than simply exploring the beauty of colors and sounds and moods in different platformer spaces.

Knytt Stories gets away from this - there's more story, but the gameplay diverges from it even more. Seiklus lacks the kinesthetic joy and expressiveness of Knytt, and does not try to tell a story. Small Worlds is closer, but again, it does not try to do too much.

And hopefully, there could be a way to make it more accessible than Knytt, even, for people like Michaël.

On a related note, perhaps there are ways of making the players using their bodies more, so as to highten or immerse them within something. Just to keep them going, so to speak. Instead of making them going for coins, make them go for their pulse. As a form of distraction, as a hook, or something. More physicality. More hormones. They could affect the experience with a game or notgame. On the other side of this spectrum (?), there is soon to be a game called Nevermind, which tries to make the player to handle their stress levels by making their heart rate affect their player-character. This is an interesting turn, and is something similar to what happens in Amnesia: when you don't see enemies, you get scared because you want control, but one of the main mechanics make it so that you lose sanity (and "the game") if you look at enemies for too long. Careful now!

Nevermind, and amnesia.

http://www.indiegogo.com/NevermindGame

From Palahniuks: Survivor, about the Stairmaster to heaven:

This is why I’m going nowhere at the rate of seven hundred calories an hour.
Around the eightieth floor, my bladder feels nested between the top of my legs. When you pull plastic wrap off something in the microwave and the steam sunburns your fingers in an instant, my breath is that hot.
You’re going up and up and up and not getting anywhere. It’s the illusion of progress. What you want to think is your salvation.
What people forget is a journey to nowhere starts with a single step, too.
It’s not as if the great coyote spirit comes to you, but around the eighty-first floor, these random thoughts from out of the ozone just catch in your head. Silly things the agent told you, now they add up. The way you feel when you’re scrubbing with pure ammonia fumes and right then while you’re scrubbing chicken skin off the barbecue grill, every stupid thing in the world, decaffeinated coffee, alcohol, free beer, StairMasters, makes perfect sense, not because you’re any smarter, but because the smart part of your brain’s on vacation. It’s that kind of faux wisdom. That kind of Chinese food enlightenment where you know that ten minutes after your head clears, you’ll forget it all.
Those clear plastic bags you get a single serving of honey-roasted peanuts in on a plane instead of a real meal, that’s how small my lungs feel. After eighty-five floors, the air feels that thin. Your arms pumping, your feet jam down on every next step. At this point, your every thought is so profound.
The way bubbles form in a pan of water before it comes to a boil, these new insights just appear.
Around the ninetieth floor, every thought is an epiphany.
Paradigms are dissolving right and left.
Everything ordinary turns into a powerful metaphor.
The deeper meaning of everything is right there in your face.
And it’s all so significant.
It’s all so deep.
So real.

Catharsis through running?

No. Just, no.

That has nothing to do with games or notgames. More physicality is not more immersive. Immersion happens in the mind. That's why a quick press of a keyboard of controller button is far better than leaping around like an idiot in front of motion detection game. At least for me. I don't want to experience what it's really like to run half way across Tamriel and take a sword to the helmet. I don't want sand down my pants after sliding down a dune like in Journey. Or be chased by horrors in the dark like in Amnesia. No thanks.

If I wanted to get my heart rate up, sweat and all that bullshit, I'd go to the gym or go hiking.

Yes.  This bugs me too, but I don't really say anything because it's so hot right now to believe that motion control devices are the wave of the future.  I've come to the conclusion that really, the simple button press is probably already the ultimate interface.  It's simple, direct, requires no effort, and is so automatic that it doesn't break immersion.  You can keep doing it without physically tiring, and there's little to no ambiguity about what you're doing.  You can't tell me motion control gestures are more intuitive - they're affected and there's lots more room for personal interpretation, with the singular exception of tilting the controller, since that's something we all naturally do anyway, whether it helps or not.  We already have the most elegant interface solution with the button press - no need for all this broohaha (though I don't want anyone to stop exploring the possibilities.  I definitely reserve the right to be wrong about this).

I'm not sure if we have the same experience here, or talk of the same things. Immersion, I'm not sure, and yes, physical controls often leads to less immersion (me trying to figure out twilight sword and being utterly frustrated, breaking all flow).

The gym is a good thing to talk about though, perhaps. Perhaps it's difficult to make paradigms dissolving right and left through more physical gaming, since I have an easier to doing "straight thinking" when doing nothing with the body at all, so to speak. But for example when in the gym, music I don't listen to suddenly becomes totally awesome and emotionally riveting, due to it being in a context, due to me being able to explore this with other people, yet in solitude. And because my hormones are running high. If you imagine this cannot be used to some advantage in gaming, whatsoever, then I do believe it is your imagination that is lacking, not the fault of the idea as such! And perhaps the approach of straight thinking is wrong when it comes to dissolving paradigms while running. Perhaps it would feel better to actually see dualistic concepts on screen dissolving to the beat of ones heart while one runs, instead of just running outside and getting a sense of presence/mindfulness. Different strokes, different effects.

Yes, the button is very "ultimate" as such, but what about tactile games? The painstation for example? Will the thought of you getting an electric shock not make your heart rate jump faster, and thus when the game is about keeping calm, will this not make an excellence exercise in zen-flow, an experience which would be utterly different (worse?) if you just had to hold the controller still while it rumbles, or even less, just press two buttons right and left and try to keep a meter steady?

The Painstation is a moronic idea.

Well that settles it then!

I think there's a distinction to be made between physical excitement and aesthetic pleasure. The emotions you feel when affected by an artificial object, like a work of art, are different than those you feel as a result of real life experience. Consider the difference between being in love and being moved by a romantic film, for instance.

There is a tendency towards the real in games, but I think this tendency leads us away from the aesthetic, away from the sublime. We need some degree of distance to experience those.